tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26129962.post6180314909677808960..comments2023-05-17T13:37:24.372+01:00Comments on SalvationsSongs: Going UpMarcus Greenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06603530412980948533noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26129962.post-14673516767961216072009-05-27T10:36:23.128+01:002009-05-27T10:36:23.128+01:00I'm glad it was a faith-builder. At 8am I felt I d...I'm glad it was a faith-builder. At 8am I felt I didn't get that quite right. Trying to get people to delve a bit deeper can come off as clever-clever rather than thought-provoking, and that belittles faith rather than grows it. <br /><br />At 11 I went for the wonder factor. Which I think is Luke's point. There is a perfectly serviceable word for "ascend" or "go up" in the NT - it's used 85 times - but it isn't used in the account of the Ascension! Why not? Because sometimes blue isn't blue. It's more wonderful than that. It's aquamarine and ultramarine and has shimmers of teal and indigo and turquoise about it. Just calling it "blue" and thinking we've got it isn't doing the text - or more importantly us! - any favours. <br /><br />What pleased me more than anything was the number of people coming up for prayer afterwards, wanting that touch of the amazing God who understands. <br /><br />And Mark - we shall miss you. Travel well. Visit often. I look forwards to continuing comments!Marcus Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06603530412980948533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26129962.post-2142588378931645752009-05-24T22:21:47.592+01:002009-05-24T22:21:47.592+01:00Good sermon, well thought through, supurbly delive...Good sermon, well thought through, supurbly delivered - 9 out of 10, could have mentioned the similarities with the transfiguration :p<br /><br />Was fantastic, looking forward to the next I hearAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26129962.post-75050868804646775132009-05-23T12:18:19.820+01:002009-05-23T12:18:19.820+01:00JD - I agree & disagree. Forgive me for questi...JD - I agree & disagree. Forgive me for questioning methodology, but I think the Pentecost analogy holds. There too enormous detail is pointed out by Luke the historian - "all together in one place", "all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit" and then the famous list of places from where the hearers of the tongues came. Yet the detail of the spiritual event is clearly a painting not a photograph. The mixing of detail & being overwhelmed by God is important - for God overwhelms us in the detail of life, in our history. <br /><br />Moreover, I do think we have translation problems. And I don't just mean ideas. I mean words. The cloud that "hid" Jesus from sight? That's <I>hypolambano</I>. Free Greek word. No charge. Five uses in the NT: Lk7.15 & Acts 2.15 "suppose", Lk 10.30 "in reply", 3 Jn1.8 "show hospitality", Acts 1.9 "hid". <br /><br />Or <I>epairo</I>, he was "taken up" before their eyes. Usually used for raising your eyes to heaven - see John 17.1 for standard usage (Lk 18.13, Jn 4.35etc). Perhaps used for raising yourself up with pride, or raising your voice or your hands in prayer. <B>Not</B> obviously a flying verb. <br /><br />The angels' word, <I>analambano</I> (and I'm still not charging for the Greek lesson) is your best bet. Often used in the context of Jesus being taken up into heaven (Mk 19.19, Acts 1.2, 1 Tim3.16) it works best - but it also just means "taken". "Put on the full armour of God": oh yes, that's <I>analambano</I>, and I'm pretty sure Paul wasn't including anti-grav boots & jet thrusters.<br /><br />My point is this: <br /><B>This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven. </B> <br />The same way.<br />The story is not about flying but about humanity and God. He may have risen above the ground; something amazing happened! Read this and then read the transfiguration - though the Greek only has a couple of words in common, the sense of the accounts is very close. Jesus exalted and hidden by a cloud... But as the disciples stare at where he was they are told in no uncertain terms:<br /><br />1. He will return.<br />2. He will return as human as he left.<br />3. That means that Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, is God and Man for all eternity. Now, flying may be impressive, but that I have an advocate at the heart of God who really, in a corporeal, genuine and non-metaphorical way the same as me - guaranteed - that is something I should be singing about!Marcus Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06603530412980948533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26129962.post-91350975594128078892009-05-23T02:44:09.461+01:002009-05-23T02:44:09.461+01:00I agree-- a beyond words experience, but I would d...I agree-- a beyond words experience, but I would distinguish Pentecost and the metaphorical "like" language from the Ascension where it seems to be described quite literally as a matter of fact. Luke, the historian, gives us specifics like Jesus telling them to "wait in Jerusalem." Not wait in Galilee where they lived, but in Jerusalem. Everything is described-- the "two men dressed in white," exactly what they said, their exact location, how far they walked back to the city, where they went, exactly who was there, and so on. My point is if Luke gives all of this specific historical detail about all these things, why would he make Jesus' actual ascension somehow "metaphorical." <br /><br />Jesus flew! It's absurd-- but then again, so is everything else about Jesus. ;-) i'll write more on my blog. thanks Vicar..John David Walthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16326982392034399479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26129962.post-66641926235240296762009-05-22T13:45:58.641+01:002009-05-22T13:45:58.641+01:00I hope you'll be preaching this on Sunday,as its m...I hope you'll be preaching this on Sunday,as its my last weekend in ponty I think I deserve a treat.<br /><br />The ascention for me, is one of a few moments when I realise how strange Christian faith is.<br /><br />"strange" is the wrong word. "wonderful" is perhaps better. <br /><br />It is commonplace (at least in my experience) for Christians to want to make our faith sound more sensible for non-believers, so that we dont sound quite so bizarre. This is one of those moments when we get to say "this strange thing happened, isn't it marvelous".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com